The Mosque

[Darkstarsol]

First off let me say I am not a religious person so this has nothing to do with any views I may have.

Today President Obama put his support behind a project to build a mosque near the site of the September 11th Twin Towers tradgey. Apparently there's a movement from relatives of those that were killed saying that this is disrespectful to those that were killed by the frankly sick attacks by Al Qaeda and glorifies what they did.

Now I understand why they are upset, losing anyone is a very painful thing but what they have to remember is that this attack was by Al Qaeda not the Muslim religion.

The vast majority of Muslims deplore what Al Qaeda did and do not agree with their views in any way and if they want to build a mosque then I say why not. Have we become so blinded by these extremists that we no longer recognise people's right to worship a religion that largely promotes peace and understanding?

I find myself asking a simple question. If they wanted to build a Catholic Church near Ground Zero would there be such an outcry? We all know that it is rife with corruption, sexism, homphobia and instances of Paedophilia but I'm fairly confident that people wouldn't say it's an insult to the children, wives and partners of those who were killed.

But like I say it's just my opinion. Any others are gratefully accepted.

[pimpin101]

Obviously some people are going to question Obama on his decision about this. Every time I turn on the news people are on him for something he did or did not do. I don't know why anybody in their right mind would want to be the president when no matter what you do your going to get harsh criticism even if you tried your best to make the right decision.

Anyways back to the topic I don't really have objections towards them building this kind of close to ground zero but I can see how people could look at it the wrong way and feel it was a slam to people who were involved in 9/11. Either way this is just another event for people on all sides of the political spectrum to argue about.

[Starman]

Does Obama EVER know what hes doing?
I dont think so...

Shouldnt he let US [ the people who live in New York ] vote on this?
Wouldnt that be fair for the people who live here??

[Destroyer]

I don't want them to build it. There's a muslim group in New York that hates america. They also threaten anyone who talks about Mohammad like the South Park show did. I don't hate all muslims but quite a few of them are idiots and violent, hateful people. I think it's stupid how they are so sensitive when someone pokes fun at Mohammad or just shows a drawing of him but yet a lot of muslims are named after him. I think that would be disrespect right there.

I've seen videos of how these muslims act in their country. It's downright sickening.

Muslims are secretly trying their best to turn the United States into a muslim country. They try to spread their (hate) way of doing things around trying to get people to turn into one of them. I've seen a video of a leader of one of the muslim groups in New York say this so don't say i'm wrong.
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[ICBM]

I had no plans on posting here anymore, but this needs to be said.

Muslims didn't attack the World Trade Centre. Extremists did. Not allowing this Mosque to be built is like saying that Catholic/Christian churches should not be built because of the "Holy" wars waged by King Richard. Maybe the spot is a bit of a bad choice, but lambasting the entire Muslim world because of some jackasses is ridiculous!

The US preaches tolerance for other people and has even gone to War to "protect" them and their way of life. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and a lot of the Middle East have US troops over there to help them.

While most kids in this generation are well connected and have access to information I would have given anything to have I'm shocked at the hostility! Not everyone who wears the clothing of Muslims is an extremist waiting in the shadows. If you're going to label every one of them then I suggest you seriously consider your own beliefs and what kind of attrocities they foster today and even hundreds of years ago. People have been killing each other in the name of God for centuries.

I hope you have a belief of some kind. If you do I hope you strongly consider what I've just said. You young people talk about ending racism and the poor treatment of others. With unfounded and stupid comments like these I think Obama and the rest of the world leaders should just recall the troops overseas. They're over there fighting for other peoples' rights. There have been 2 World Wars and many hundreds of thousands of people died to protect your freedom. Yet here you are attempting to trample on the freedom of others who are part of your country.

_____

I'm disgusted and ashamed to be part of this site. There's way too much anti-Middle East sentiment for me. I don't agree with the hostility and I certainly don't agree with the public bashing of a very old religion. If any of you spent time to study and understand it you would see it the way I do.

Good Bye.
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[bedem15]

i think it goes both ways...there are always going to be people with different views, some of which threaten the safety of the people in this country...there also are a lot of people who are just trying to be able to practice their religion in peace and dont have hatred towards this country....i think saying muslims are trying to turn this country into a muslim country, spreading their hate is unfair...and before you go nuts about a video you saw, yes, there are muslims out their full of hate, they are called extremists....not all muslims think and act that way

[ICBM]

For anyone who doesn't like what I had to say maybe you should re-read this thread. It's exactly the point I'm making. Should all "christians" be labeled as extremists because of this lady and others like her?

http://www.arcadeboss.com/arcade-thread3060.html&highlight=crazy+christian+lady
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[Destroyer]

I made sure that I let people here know that I don't dislike all muslims because I know not all of them are like the bad ones that you hear about. As for the part about those muslim groups.....the leader of the group said himself on TV in an interview that they aren't a religion of peace. I'm not making this stuff up and I didn't misunderstand anything. You can find these videos on youtube. It's not just some video, it's the group leader saying with his own mouth that they aren't a religion of peace.

It's funny how people ignore some parts of my post. I never said all muslims are evil and want to take over america.

When I said Muslims are secretly trying to change america, I meant THESE muslims. I made a small error there in that part of my post but the rest of my post probally should of explained that part good enough.
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[ICBM]

And you've gone and read up on the Muslim religion to see if he's telling the truth or not?

Some of this is taken from: http://www.ehcweb.ehc.edu/faculty/fkellogg/211u3.htm

According to Muhammad, God sets high ethical standards of truth, purity, generosity, and justice. Failure to live up to these standards will bring drastic consequences in both this life and the next life.

Through Moses, God made a covenant with the Israelites and on a mountain revealed to them his precepts. That covenant included the following commandments, recorded in the Qur'an (2:83):

*Serve only God.
*Act in kindness toward your parents, your relatives, orphans, and the *poor.
*Urge people to live righteous lives.
*Say your prayers.
*Fulfill the duty of almsgiving.

Upon dying everyone will be judged by The Book of Life. This is what Islam says will be part of the judgement deciding if you go to Heaven or Hell:

We will find out what is in that glorious book on the Day of Resurrection. Then God will open up the book and say, "Here is your book. Read it. Today you will be judged by your own soul." (S. 17:13-14) All people will be judged with fairness. Those whose record shows them to have lived in sin and injustice will be taken to Hell. Those whose book lists deeds of kindness and mercy will be taken to Paradise.
________

No where does it say that Holy war and killing of people is acceptable to Allah(God). In essence Islam preaches a humble life filled with the giving, healing and helping of those who need it. It would seem that there's a lot to be learned by people here.
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[Destroyer]

I was just pointing out how this muslim group and it's leader in New York said that they praise the 9/11 attacks among other things that were said.

When the creators of the South Park show did an episode about Mohammad, the muslim group in New York posted Matt and Trey's addresses where they live and work but yet said they were not threatening the creators of the show. That was clearly a threat posting their addresses on their website. That's why it's hard for me to trust anything they do or say and think they are telling the truth.


I don't think this muslim talk fits me very well. I guess I should just stay out of it. It just seems to me like these groups are lying about what they are really doing or wanting to do. It's just my opinion on it. I hope I didn't make anyone mad at me but I still don't regret that first post I made.
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[ICBM]

I see Starman edited his post instead of defending his views. Thanks for standing up for what you said Destroyer. It's always nice to see someone stand up for what they believe.
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[Lonny]

obama isn't "siding with muslims in any way on this issue" he's siding with the founders of this country who enshrined freedom of religion into the constitution.

Which clearly states
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

Thats right their is Establishment of religion / Free exercise of religion.

One can't pick apart our own constitution for any reason, that goes for our own president past present or future.

If one doesnt like what our constitution says then re right it or burn it. You'll have hell to pay if you try to do any of those things.

Some of us have such short memory. Their was a time in our own history were christian[s] used to burn men women young and old for non christian belies or being satin / witch worshipers. It was the STATES of this nation that gave these people the rights to believe in what they want cause of the constitution.
Which I personally cherish being born here.

As much I dont like it being being built that close some 2-4 blocks from g-zero. They have a right under this country's law.
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[Starman]

Well, i really don't know too much on this topic, so i felt that it was rude for me to say something like that, i know its not true...

I don't have any problem with muslims, or any religions, but the thing is, some people are crazy, like people who kill others...

I just hope building this doesnt lead to any trouble, and i know i shouldnt be afraid or something, its just, scary having them building that about 25 minutes away from where i live.

Sorry for just editing that post and not standing up for myself, im just weak on this topic, and don't have much to say.

Edit : And this building is going to cost another 100Million dollars to build... where is all this money coming from?

i bet were going to have to pay more taxes now YAY

[Darkstarsol]

I must admit I didn't expect this topic to become such a flash point. I agree with ICBM that the Muslim religion is primarily a peaceful one and does deserve a certain respect.

The trouble with religions though is that extremists always use them as an excuse to cause death and misery all in the name of a holy war, from the roman persecution of Christianity to the Crusades to the Secular violence in Northern Ireland and now Al Qaeda and the likes Holy War.

Religion can be a major problem throughout the world but it can also help people find peace with themselves and help with the loss of a loved one. It's a minefield thats for sure and I think the only way to get through it is to keep your eyes open and devote yourself to anything fanatically.

[bedem15]

this is the exact reason why when you go into a lot of bars or pubs with a lot of regulars they dont really like people talking about religion and politics...everyone has a different view and they always turn into heated discussions